Update: Kissinger tells JTA: Take remark on gas chambers in context
Update by Jeffrey Goldberg, The Atlantic. December 14
ADL: Kissinger's Vile Words Means Nothing
The Nixon tapes remind us what a vile creature Henry Kissinger is.
By Christopher Hitchens
"Over the last few weeks, this modest little column of mine has been acquiring an almost eerie prescience and potency."
Read More (Slate)
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
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65 comments:
Decent declares victory!
fuck off fgfm...it's getting really tiresome having to read the same stupid nonsense from you every fucking five seconds.
I hatred you're welcome.
Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people "Decent declares victory!"
Give it up, shit for brains. No one cares.
You have your own hitchens website for god sake...can't you just post your contentless slogans primarily there? If you wanna say something worthwhile here, great! But please stop trolling the messageboards to the point where they become impossible to use for any discussion whatsoever. It's really juvenile.
Wow! This article really lets Kissinger have it. I almost feel it is too strong!
I wonder if we are missing the context or something of these remarks. I suppose I could go and listen...
You have your own hitchens [sic] website for god sake...can't you just post your contentless slogans primarily there? If you wanna say something worthwhile here, great! But please stop trolling the messageboards to the point where they become impossible to use for any discussion whatsoever. It's really juvenile.
Protesting Decent.
Cyberstalking, if it means anything, means trolling the internet for pictures of Christopher Hitchens' daughter. Right FGFM?
All I've got to say is that it takes a lot of guts to go after an 87 year old man who hasn't worked for the government for 33 years.
Does it take more guts to troll the internet for pictures of teenage girls?
Does it take more guts to troll the internet [sic] for pictures of teenage girls?
Indeed.
I think we need to make a distinction between the right to free speech, an inalienable right, and the election to harbour full-spectrum commentary of a constructive and provocative nature.
I have to say, while I respect the webmaster's choice to keep to unmoderated threads, the inane, off-topic distraction-action proffered by the constant verbal waste product known as FGFM has made it rather impossible to get best enjoyment from this site these days. The point, no? FGFM has his HitchensWatch as a vehicle for the expression of his views after all. His apparent motive here is simple nuisance.
If it were up to me, and I nurse no wish that it was or that my bidding should ever be done, based on past performance I'd block FGFM from making any further comments but post a well-placed, permanent link to his site for those who wish to explore its, um, angle. As it presently stands, having to filter through FGFM drivel to find exchanges of substance has become a loosing proposition and not worth the aggro.
And for the record, I'm no Hitchens' acolyte or big-man-groupie, not that there's anything wrong with such strains of admiration. I don't get off reducing other fans to derivatives just so I can feel a peer to the Hitch. Comparative valuation schemes are ultimately a bore.
Withstanding all my many differences of opinion with Hitchens, I feel no conflict of interest when I say that I have nothing but appreciation for the author. If that makes me a Hitch slag, I'll wear it well.
I don't get off reducing other fans to derivatives just so I can feel a peer to the Hitch. Comparative valuation schemes are ultimately a bore.
Decent financial engineer.
If that makes me a Hitch slag, I'll wear it well.
You and Monica Lewinsky.
All I've got to say is article 29 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court holds that war crimes are not subject to any statute of limitations nor prescription. Presumably you would have been OK with the hunt for Nazi war criminals being called off around the, ooh, the sixties, shall we say? Good argument, shit for brains!
Now that I think of it, I would also like to mention that it is a rather weak and contemptible person who perpetually orients himself in opposition to a despised person, rather than affirming any positive set of beliefs himself.
All I've got to say is article 29 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court holds that war crimes are not subject to any statute of limitations nor prescription. Presumably you would have been OK with the hunt for Nazi war criminals being called off around the, ooh, the sixties, shall we say? Good argument, shit for brains!
Now that I think of it, I would also like to mention that it is a rather weak and contemptible person who perpetually orients himself in opposition to a despised person, rather than affirming any positive set of beliefs himself.
Don't be so hard on Hitchens, he's a drunk with cancer!
You're a bore FGFM.
You're a bore FGFM.
You apparently find commas boring.
interesting to see that my comment's down, but room's left for FGFM to shoot unchecked spitballs at Christopher and everyone else.
as for said odium's trite line, lumping me in with Lewinsky, meh.... i don't need to get down on my knees in participation mystique with power, i have my own. further, if i ever had politician cock in my mouth, i'd bear down and bite.
FGFM is not funny.
interesting to see that my comment's down, but room's left for FGFM to shoot unchecked spitballs at Christopher and everyone else.
Do you have a theory about that?
as for said odium's trite line, lumping me in with Lewinsky, meh.... i don't need to get down on my knees in participation mystique with power, i have my own. further, if i ever had politician cock in my mouth, i'd bear down and bite.
Decent comma aficionado.
FGFM is not funny.
Neither are women.
FGFM, what do you get out of spending your days being an incorrect and unfunny bore on the Internet? Don't you have a job or school to go to? Is this all you do? It's relentless.
I rather suspect the webmaster thought the gist of my gib would have been better addressed in a PM to him, not posted in a thread. I happen to disagree with that, but as in life its often DECENT to have your wishes and aims obstructed, dismissed or misunderstood. Its character building.
FGFM, what do you get out of spending your days being an incorrect and unfunny bore on the Internet?
Decent demands answers!
Don't you have a job or school to go to?
I work in finance.
Is this all you do?
No.
It's relentless.
Indeed.
I rather suspect the webmaster thought the gist of my gib would have been better addressed in a PM to him, not posted in a thread.
I love a theory!
I happen to disagree with that, but as in life its often DECENT to have your wishes and aims obstructed, dismissed or misunderstood. Its character building.
Indeed.
somebody shoot this guy in the face
somebody shoot this guy in the face
Decent death threat.
theories are only valuable to the extent you're willing to abandon them when they prove insufficient to carry forward. people who won't reexamine their views periodically or lay waste to previous opinions are missing out on one of the great rejuvenations of the human experience.
theories are only valuable to the extent you're willing to abandon them when they prove insufficient to carry forward. people who won't reexamine their views periodically or lay waste to previous opinions are missing out on one of the great rejuvenations of the human experience.
Kinda like Hitchens and the Niger yellowcake forgeries.
FGFM believes Joe Wilson! Point and laugh, everyone!
FGFM believes Joe Wilson! Point and laugh, everyone!
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
I am in the 99th percentile.
I am in the 99th percentile.
Of anonymous fanboys.
well, there _are_ corroborating sources beyond the wilson reportage.
listen, i long ago adjusted my expectations for truth in the world when i first confronted the vast hypocrisy at work in the sciences, where assays and datum can be adjusted to produce evidence of a pre-destined and utterly false conclusion. i would safely hazard that the same is true in all realms of human engagement with power and influence. you can adjust the facts to suit your case. it's the norm, not the exception.
its one of the reasons i'm interested in bringing the conversation down to the level of motive, worldview, and individual psychology. the rest is details. and to fight the details is to shadow box.
as for the truth, well, clearly we need the leak phenom for that.
listen, i long ago adjusted my expectations for truth in the world when i first confronted the vast hypocrisy at work in the sciences, where assays and datum can be adjusted to produce evidence of a pre-destined and utterly false conclusion. i would safely hazard that the same is true in all realms of human engagement with power and influence. you can adjust the facts to suit your case. it's the norm, not the exception.
Datum is the singular form of data, genius.
yah, datum, as in the concluding be-all-and-end-all-point of individual researches.
you can't resist trying to one-up people even when they make allowances for your point of view. class. too bad you can't quite catch me with your claws of floss.
my bad for making the mistake that you could be civilized by engagement. i won't make that mistake again.
I'm not impressed by your bullshit about supposedly working in the "the sciences" and observing this "vast hypocrisy" when you don't know the difference between data and datum.
hey dingbat... i said the "hypocrisy at work in the sciences" not that i worked in the sciences.
of course i do know the difference between data and datum, but even if i didn't, and for all those who don't, fuck you and your collegiate arrogance. further, since you're an inveterate stalker, you know quite well what i do for a living, even with most of my webwork down for seasonal upkeep.
in fact, i must be erring on the side of prescience myself because this could easily be your theme song.
http://soundcloud.com/michelle-bellerose/kingdumb
Going out on a limb here, but I bet m is not impressed by cyberstalking loners who make youtube videos of themselves making hotdogs and washing their feet.
of course i do know the difference between data and datum, but even if i didn't, and for all those who don't, fuck you and your collegiate arrogance. further, since you're an inveterate stalker, you know quite well what i do for a living, even with most of my webwork down for seasonal upkeep.
Delusional Decent.
Going out on a limb here, but I bet m is not impressed by cyberstalking loners who make youtube videos of themselves making hotdogs and washing their feet.
He's obviously not impressed by the difference between singular and plural.
oh, go run your bath, FGFM. your insistence on behalf of the grammar police is not only, in this instance, erroneous, it's, as everyone around here agrees, boring.
enough commas for you?
Who gives a fuck about some excess commas?
Good catch on the singular/plural difference, FGFM. Your transcendant creepiness is absolutely unique. No one else on earth makes youtube videos of himself cooking hotdogs and washing his feet.
Good catch on the singular/plural difference, FGFM.
That's why they pay me the big bucks.
Your transcendant creepiness is absolutely unique.
Indeed.
No one else on earth makes youtube videos of himself cooking hotdogs and washing his feet.
Not only that, I died for your sins!
"Good catch on the singular/plural difference, FGFM. Your transcendant creepiness is absolutely unique. No one else on earth makes youtube videos of himself cooking hotdogs and washing his feet."
It's blindingly obvious and has been apparent to many by this stage that FGFM at the very least suffers from Asperger's. The monotonic unmodulating voice heard in those weird videos being just one of the milder but salient symptoms. To a degree he is deserving of sympathy, compassion, and understanding.
Of course, that explains a few things, but not why he is such an utter asshole.
It's blindingly obvious and has been apparent to many by this stage that FGFM at the very least suffers from Asperger's. The monotonic unmodulating voice heard in those weird videos being just one of the milder but salient symptoms. To a degree he is deserving of sympathy, compassion, and understanding.
Decent has a theory!
Of course, that explains a few things, but not why he is such an utter asshole.
Puzzled Decent.
FGFM - you must be in a state of permament epistemological crisis, or you flunked philosophy 101 with flying colours. Either way, your comeback is, as always, lame and incorrect.
Theory? Au contraire, you should be in text books. You just tick too, too many boxes:
Although individuals with Asperger syndrome acquire language skills without significant general delay and their speech typically lacks significant abnormalities, language acquisition and use is often atypical.[5] Abnormalities include verbosity, abrupt transitions, literal interpretations and miscomprehension of nuance, use of metaphor meaningful only to the speaker, auditory perception deficits, unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech, and oddities in loudness, pitch, intonation, prosody, and rhythm.[1]
Three aspects of communication patterns are of clinical interest: poor prosody, tangential and circumstantial speech, and marked verbosity. Although inflection and intonation may be less rigid or monotonic than in autism, people with AS often have a limited range of intonation: speech may be unusually fast, jerky or loud. Speech may convey a sense of incoherence; the conversational style often includes monologues about topics that bore the listener, fails to provide context for comments, or fails to suppress internal thoughts. Individuals with AS may fail to monitor whether the listener is interested or engaged in the conversation. The speaker's conclusion or point may never be made, and attempts by the listener to elaborate on the speech's content or logic, or to shift to related topics, are often unsuccessful.[5]
Children with AS may have an unusually sophisticated vocabulary at a young age and have been colloquially called "little professors", but have difficulty understanding figurative language and tend to use language literally.[1] Children with AS appear to have particular weaknesses in areas of nonliteral language that include humor, irony, and teasing. Although individuals with AS usually understand the cognitive basis of humor, they seem to lack understanding of the intent of humor to share enjoyment with others.[12] Despite strong evidence of impaired humor appreciation, anecdotal reports of humor in individuals with AS seem to challenge some psychological theories of AS and autism.[27]
as someone who actually has AS i have to take exception to using this evaluation of FGFM as the basis for critique. there are sufficient, DECENT points to make about the FGFM gruel that substitutes for dialogue here. no need for death threats or crass swipes at different forms of intelligence.
on our original note, i'm also an avid reader of historian niall ferguson... he's in the process of writing a book on kissinger with full cooperation from his subject. i've read christopher's book and tend toward his assessment. not to mention, in an odd twist of fate i found myself privy to a very compelling report of kissinger's darkest personal secrets that i've seen nowhere reported.
i think christopher may well get his wish. at minimum, this story will not go gentle into this good night...
Aspies for Hitch!
you are such an unadulterated cunt FGFM. i have the bravery to stand up and take the aspies bullet intended for you and the best you can do is turn it into a personal swipe and malignment against the author's readers and supporters. i think if you put friends and fans of FGFM in one corner and friends and fans of Hitchens in the other, the quality and quantity of folk on the Hitch count would clearly speak for itself.
i would suggest that you've ruined the community potential for discussion on this website, but that would be to give you a wood-pump for credit.
no. i'll leave you flaccid and wanting as you were found. poking sticks at the FGFM bear was a slight diversion but, babe, the thrill is gone.
you are such an unadulterated cunt FGFM.
Indeed.
"interesting to see that my comment's down, but room's left for FGFM to shoot unchecked spitballs at Christopher and everyone else."
Which comment would that be, Michelle? I haven't deleted any comments by anyone.
Another thing. Everyone: We've had this discussion before about commenting here on DH. I'm getting tired of reading these off topic, fuck FGFM, whatever, comments. It's just not FGFM's comments that bothers me. If he hasn't posted anything for a while, there's always someone commenting on what a piece of shit he is, he responds, and it's the usual BS all over. If you have something to say to FGFM or Mark G, you know exactly where to go to let them know what you think.
If you can't follow the normal guidelines for commenting on blogs, the comments will be moderated. My guess is, this will happen very shortly.
i posted a comment saying the same thing as you just did and it disappeared from the thread moments later.
for the record, tho i tend to delight in salty language, the only posts i've made on this list are the ones i put my name to.
its damn hard to resist stepping in to defend posters or untangle all the ad hominem shite against CH, but it too easily gets out of hand and brings out the worst in all of us. and while i rather enjoyed sounding off, the aftertaste isn't worth it.
If you checked that your comment actually showed, and it disappeared, I honestly don't know what could've happened.
it was there briefly, that's why FGFM was able to copy and paste excerpts from it. water under the bridge.
signing off, thanks tom.
Mystery solved. Found 3 messages in the spam box and unspammed them.
If you have something to say to FGFM or Mark G, you know exactly where to go to let them know what you think.
Yeah, you are completely right, Tom. I'm shamefaced to admit I have responded to them a couple of times...fighting crazy is a losing battle. I see the error of my ways now, and from here on out fgfm/MarkG/random trollers just get ignored by me, no matter how tempting it might be...I apologize for my (small) part in this nonsense; it won't happen again.
Yes, please moderate the comments to remove any off-topic nonsense. Both the FGFM BS and the baiting of him should go....
I suggest that serious, and possibly even sincere people/comments are the only kind allowed; especially since it is a CH site (he deserves this much, yes?)
All the rest make it painful.
Hmmm, on the new link someone says that if George McGovern had got into the presidency then Israel would have been crushed in the Yom Kippur War.
Well, asuming that the war would still have happened, does anyone think this is true?
Strangely, from what I have read Kissinger was happy to see Israel take a few losses at the start of the war and also did a lot of strong-arming of Israel [cutting of aid - or threatening to - and stuff].
This is my undestanding, anyway. Anyonne know a bit more than me on this?
Decent endorses Hitch!
http://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/14726856221655041
Drop what yr doing and read RT @Slate: Hitchens takes down Henry Kissinger and those horrid new Nixon tapes. http://slate.me/gbTqKt
Hold the line fellows!
The silence of the Decents.
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