UPDATE: Watch/Download the debate on Internet Archive. Notice the play order of the videos
http://www.archive.org/details/11PartsChristopherHitchensVsTariqRamadan-IsIslamAReligionOfPeace
October 5, 2010. 92nd Street Y, New York.
Part 1
via AlbertDarwin007
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
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13 comments:
Oh how marvelous! Thank you!
I was sorry to be unable to attend the debate because it was sold out; however now I see that there is a distinct advantage to watching it on youtube :)
I could listen to Hitchens debate all day...
I give credit to Hitchens for being funny. Can't deny him that. But Ramadan is obviously the more serious and educated intellectual here.
Dhimmi Dim
It's crappy when someone agrees to debate and then turns up only to ask to talk about something else.
Effectively Ramadan conceded the debate right at the beginning by saying Islam is not a religon of peace. Then he just waffled endlessly about how all relgions are good and they are all the same as what Socrates was going on about.
Very bland of Ramadan to wring all meaning out of the debate like that.
Fact: 16,000 attacks on innocents (terrorism) by Muslims, based on their Islamic faith since 9/11 - and that doesn't include the violence against the military and law enforcement in Iraq, Afghanistan or elsewhere. There is no contemporary comparison available to this slaughter. There are isolated incidents, but nowhere near the number by Muslims.
Yes, yes, we know there are different interpretations. But is highly interesting to note what the "holy" books themselves say...which is something the religious are supposed to follow. Gladly not everyone takes those books so seriously even though they are religious themselves.
"There are isolated incidents, but nowhere near the number by Muslims."
Actually we don't know that, as body counts are not done on our side because it doesn't help selling wars nor looking ourselves in the mirror.
And one could ask how many deaths do all the weapons sales contribute to indirectly.
I find that a lot of the talks about human rights, peace and democracy from the west to be utter bullocks. I'm guite frankly disgusted by "our" politicians and media from time to time.
/ 1984
The problem is that Ramadans weak english meant he misunderstood much of the debate, and was very often totaly unable to make his own points
Hence anyone saying Ramadan was more educated, or won, or beat Hitchens etc, is clearly a troll.
Ramadan didnt even understand the discussion.
He was confused by Hitchens describing Islam as total. hitchens clearly specified what he meant by this - that Islam claims to be the final religion and that it claims its book to be the word of God.
Ramadan made no attempt to adress either of these. In fact he called Islam, our final religion. But yet he challenged Hitchens comment that Islam was total. He did this by saying that Islam is more comprehensive. That he wouldnt speak to a Rabbi on a saturday and a monday, that and that "oto" are the first letters of autocratic
I must have missed it, what does Ramadan say to disprove what Hitchens says- that islam claims to be the final religion (total) and islam claiming to be the word of gof - (total)
The answer is nothing.
In which case, what right does he have to mock Hitchens for calling Islam total?
And he never really adressed the question, just talked about how great islam was.
He even at one point complains that Hitchens "love to lot make laugh the people" (great english there professor btw)"and i have a problem being killed".
So he even complaining that Hitchens is using jokes.
Yep, great performance there professor. Great peformance. You sure schooled that bald uneducated heathen.
You would have to be Dim to think Ramadan won that.
Damn. I badly wanted to see this but it has been taken down before I had a chance. Damn capitalism of speech.
It's still on YT. I embedded the new code from another uploader
It's down again...
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